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Post by markhampyro on Dec 2, 2016 22:19:49 GMT -5
Some guys like the pyromusical. Some guys just want the beautiful boom of a shell break. What do you guys prefer?
Personally I'm a pyromusical guy. Don't think I could go back to shooting my own personal show without syncing it to music.
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Post by huggyd on Dec 3, 2016 3:32:15 GMT -5
I like to watch the pyro musicals. As for doing the show, hell as long I am involved I really don't care which one.
Not to hi-jack your post Mark, but what's the real cost diff of doing a musical vs. a regular show, apples to apples the same number \ type fireworks and e-matches the only diff being the music sync part?
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Post by markhampyro on Dec 3, 2016 7:18:12 GMT -5
Come on D....you should know Mark doesn't live in Markham! Lol
Obviously audio equipment is an added cost that wouldn't normally be there. I don't hand light anything so I would need ematches anyways. So cost wise, that would almost be the same. So I guess the real difference between the two type of shows is that you need more ematches for fronts that you probably wouldn't shoot in a traditional show. And obviously the cost of one shot comets/mines.
And obviously the time to script the show along with the software. But since I already have that, and since I would script a traditional show anyways, really it's just putting in the time.
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Post by Pyro Boss on Dec 4, 2016 15:04:58 GMT -5
I am more of a traditional guy. I want to hear the firework, the power of the break and nothing to be drowning out the show like music. Don't get me wrong I enjoy pyromusicals as well but to pick between them it's going to be traditional.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 4, 2016 18:37:18 GMT -5
I am more of a traditional guy. I want to hear the firework, the power of the break and nothing to be drowning out the show like music. Don't get me wrong I enjoy pyromusicals as well but to pick between them it's going to be traditional. Ahhhhhhhhhh Spoken like a true Thump Junkie  (Did I mention I am guilty of this same issue) It's funny you mention pyromusicals, I had an interesting chat with a local Pyro Tech who was boasting about there pyromusical and I had to point out that playing music in the background and firing fireworks is playing music and firing fireworks not the same as a pyromusical... someone did not like his bluff being called. Unfortunately the above happens more often then not and unfortunately the public get's taken by the same or has no idea of the difference. Pyromusicals under 30 K are a waste of time and budget but that is my opinion only, you can have one hell of a show for less and the public would enjoy it just as much. |
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Post by Pyro Boss on Dec 5, 2016 12:19:53 GMT -5
I am more of a traditional guy. I want to hear the firework, the power of the break and nothing to be drowning out the show like music. Don't get me wrong I enjoy pyromusicals as well but to pick between them it's going to be traditional. Ahhhhhhhhhh Spoken like a true Thump Junkie (Did I mention I am guilty of this same issue) It's funny you mention pyromusicals, I had an interesting chat with a local Pyro Tech who was boasting about there pyromusical and I had to point out that playing music in the background and firing fireworks is playing music and firing fireworks not the same as a pyromusical... someone did not like his bluff being called. Unfortunately the above happens more often then not and unfortunately the public get's taken by the same or has no idea of the difference. Pyromusicals under 30 K are a waste of time and budget but that is my opinion only, you can have one hell of a show for less and the public would enjoy it just as much. Totally agree. I am not really fond on people having a Pyromusical with just cakes going off, Nothing going (Breaks) with the music at all, and if it does go with the beat it's a total fluke. My two cents as well  |
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Post by markhampyro on Dec 5, 2016 14:43:26 GMT -5
Musical doesn't always have to be to the break of a shell. Most would be fronts based on comets/mines. My show isn't a pro show. It's not in a competition. It completely 1.3. It's not world class by any means. But it's a backyard enthusiast show with Cdn Consimer. And it's no where close $30K. But I love creating and shooting it. vimeo.com/167671350 |
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 5, 2016 15:53:08 GMT -5
Musical doesn't always have to be to the break of a shell. Most would be fronts based on comets/mines. My show isn't a pro show. It's not in a competition. It completely 1.3. It's not world class by any means. But it's a backyard enthusiast show with Cdn Consimer. And it's no where close $30K. But I love creating and shooting it. vimeo.com/167671350 Bold = It does to be an actual Pyro Musical otherwise it is playing music and shooting fireworks not the same. Nothing wrong with playing music and shooting a show but to call it a pyro musical is like calling a truck a race car just because it has a V8.. not the same. |
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Post by markhampyro on Dec 6, 2016 0:09:15 GMT -5
vimeo.com/1pyro8/pyroemotions-and-pyrodigitTell me how many breaks are used compared to single shots in this musical. Musical doesn't always have to be to the break of a shell. Most would be fronts based on comets/mines. My show isn't a pro show. It's not in a competition. It completely 1.3. It's not world class by any means. But it's a backyard enthusiast show with Cdn Consimer. And it's no where close $30K. But I love creating and shooting it. vimeo.com/167671350 Bold = It does to be an actual Pyro Musical otherwise it is playing music and shooting fireworks not the same. Nothing wrong with playing music and shooting a show but to call it a pyro musical is like calling a truck a race car just because it has a V8.. not the same.
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Post by Pyro Boss on Dec 6, 2016 6:35:01 GMT -5
Musical doesn't always have to be to the break of a shell. Most would be fronts based on comets/mines. My show isn't a pro show. It's not in a competition. It completely 1.3. It's not world class by any means. But it's a backyard enthusiast show with Cdn Consimer. And it's no where close $30K. But I love creating and shooting it. vimeo.com/167671350You are not understanding what I am saying. Every part of that show from Pyro Emotions has a specific place, from being a break from a shell, to comets and mines single shots. When I fart around on Finale program every firework Shell/comet/mine is placed with the ups and downs of the music. Also in my opinion, Consumer cakes and 1.3 cakes do not belong in a Pyro Musical because you cannot count on the exact timing, they are all different, Trust me, I had pro cakes that were supposed to be 30 seconds only going for 10!. Have you ever noticed any cakes in those huge Pyro Musical shows? I have not come across any because they can be unpredictable, hence the reason of everything being a single shot. Placing cakes to music is just that, having music play in the back round of a fireworks show. Placing every firework in a scripted pyro musical is indeed a Pyro Musical. But again, this is my opinion and everyone thinks differently, I respect that. |
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 6, 2016 9:03:31 GMT -5
Musical doesn't always have to be to the break of a shell. Most would be fronts based on comets/mines. My show isn't a pro show. It's not in a competition. It completely 1.3. It's not world class by any means. But it's a backyard enthusiast show with Cdn Consimer. And it's no where close $30K. But I love creating and shooting it. vimeo.com/167671350You are not understanding what I am saying. Every part of that show from Pyro Emotions has a specific place, from being a break from a shell, to comets and mines single shots. When I fart around on Finale program every firework Shell/comet/mine is placed with the ups and downs of the music. Also in my opinion, Consumer cakes and 1.3 cakes do not belong in a Pyro Musical because you cannot count on the exact timing, they are all different, Trust me, I had pro cakes that were supposed to be 30 seconds only going for 10!. Have you ever noticed any cakes in those huge Pyro Musical shows? I have not come across any because they can be unpredictable, hence the reason of everything being a single shot. Placing cakes to music is just that, having music play in the back round of a fireworks show. Placing every firework in a scripted pyro musical is indeed a Pyro Musical.But again, this is my opinion and everyone thinks differently, I respect that. <<< And that there is the problem people don't know the difference. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said! A Pyromusical is having shells go off at exact times of music highs and lows and base etc at very specific timings. Cakes as mentioned cannot be trusted to be exact timing because like 5 second hand grenades they sometimes go off at 2 seconds and sometimes at 6 seconds, kind of like some cakes. All I can say is if I was a customer and expecting a real pyro musical like say the show in Boston to the 1812 overture I expect when the cannons go off for a salut to fire at the exact mili second and that is a pyro musical and that is what people expect for there money. Otherwise it is playing music and shooting a show. Timing down to the last mili second is what counts. |
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Post by kooks on Dec 6, 2016 13:02:24 GMT -5
I agree. To be a purist, a true pyro musical is done by single shots emphasizing the song at hand. Trying to tell that to a client (with the small budget they have) is really hard to get it across. And is not profitable at all. The best is when they say “well… ABC company says they can do it!”
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 6, 2016 13:26:51 GMT -5
I agree. To be a purist, a true pyro musical is done by single shots emphasizing the song at hand. Trying to tell that to a client (with the small budget they have) is really hard to get it across. And is not profitable at all. The best is when they say “well… ABC company says they can do it!”^^^^^^^^^^^^ That is exactly the problem (bold) But abs company had music playing so it must be a pyro musical, or I seen theses guys shooting fireworks and there was music.. I want the same..... Ummm yeahhh not the same as a Pyromusical. Easy way and best way is to educate the client / org / customer is to explain exactly what the difference is and then add so if you would like a true Pyro Musical starting price is 30K and see what they say I bet 99% will opt for the playing music and shooting fireworks. And for the next question I can smell coming where I keep pulling the 30K from - think of the amount of time it will take to script and proper show, man hours, then the equipment required to do this kind of show, the amount of trucks to haul all of this there and the size of crew you will need to prep for this. Does not pay to do anything under 30K because the base system for such a set up will cost 8K and that is just a very basic firing system no software (Finale fireworks or such) So unless you like paying for the customers show or providing free everything you pretty much are doing fire fireworks and play music. Lot's of companies who like to B.S. the customer and call it a pyro musical or the customer seen t on T.V. and assumes that is what it is. |
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Post by Xplode on Jan 11, 2017 0:26:36 GMT -5
I think you guys might be approaching this a little black and white. Just because I drive a Hyundai and not a Ferrari doesn't mean mine isn't a car. They're just different points on the pricing schedule.
Pyromusicals can exist in many forms. True that most "professional" shows costing well over $30k do not tend to use cakes, but you are dead wrong saying they never do. I've been to many shows where its very clear they're using cakes during the show. I'm also good friends with a tech on the Honda Celebration of Light competition held in Vancouver, and I can clearly see cakes on the barges in the photos he's shown me. (Plus watching the show its fairly obvious)
The amount of money to do a pyromusical is definitely much much higher than a traditional show (back to the OP question). You will have exponentially more cues, meaning more ematches, larger firing systems, large increases in staffing requirements, etc. A "purist" pyromusical is definitely a huge expense if you're using almost exclusively single shot effects and shells.
But its up to you how far down the path you want to go. You have to start small, and you have to start somewhere. You can always do what I do for my personal shows and go both routes. Time a bunch of single shots and still use cakes to fill in the show. It'll take some practice to figure out the ups/downs of designing a show and getting it into the air when you start complicating it.
All that said, I flip flop. I love the artistry of trying to time breaks and colors to the music. Something I dearly hope to keep getting better at.
But I friggin love the thump of being right next to the mortar after I hand light it... soooo.... both?
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Post by huggyd on Jan 11, 2017 19:11:30 GMT -5
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Post by markhampyro on Jan 12, 2017 6:17:27 GMT -5
Ya.....perfect example Xplode's show on his thread was a better pyromusical than this second show. |
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Post by huggyd on Jan 12, 2017 8:30:56 GMT -5
I agree. To be a purist, a true pyro musical is done by single shots emphasizing the song at hand. Trying to tell that to a client (with the small budget they have) is really hard to get it across. And is not profitable at all. The best is when they say “well… ABC company says they can do it!”^^^^^^^^^^^^ That is exactly the problem (bold) But abs company had music playing so it must be a pyro musical, or I seen theses guys shooting fireworks and there was music.. I want the same..... Ummm yeahhh not the same as a Pyromusical. Easy way and best way is to educate the client / org / customer is to explain exactly what the difference is and then add so if you would like a true Pyro Musical starting price is 30K and see what they say I bet 99% will opt for the playing music and shooting fireworks. And for the next question I can smell coming where I keep pulling the 30K from - think of the amount of time it will take to script and proper show, man hours, then the equipment required to do this kind of show, the amount of trucks to haul all of this there and the size of crew you will need to prep for this. Does not pay to do anything under 30K because the base system for such a set up will cost 8K and that is just a very basic firing system no software (Finale fireworks or such) So unless you like paying for the customers show or providing free everything you pretty much are doing fire fireworks and play music. Lot's of companies who like to B.S. the customer and call it a pyro musical or the customer seen t on T.V. and assumes that is what it is. Like what Kooks said. "true pyro musical is done by single shots emphasizing the song at hand" So there are shows in which incorporate music and just by chance or maybe by a little design there are a couple of shells that may highlight a bass note but in general the music is just there for, lets call it ambience for the show. The true Pyromusical is lost without the music it goes with, there is black space and sections that look like that same one you just saw, and all that is there by design. 1) The True Pyromusical 2) Fireworks With Music 3) Fireworks Traditional |
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Post by pyrot on Nov 18, 2017 5:17:13 GMT -5
Is it too late to chime in here? If not, to the original question - I LOVE BOTH !!! I've never worked on a pyromusical, though I have scripted lots, as most songs I listen to I see fireworks firing to it ! I have some songs that I have actually scripted on paper, if the chance comes along that I would ever be able to shoot it! I do make a point of attending Globalfest at least one show each year, if not every one! (I'm the guy that brings binoculars LOL) The also both have their place. Most shows should always be based around a traditional show in my opinion, unless its a competition/festival, where there is a designated viewing area. And yes, Shooting fireworks with music playing in the background is not a pyromusical. Now for the cakes argument I dissagree. Cakes are used lots in big pyromusicals - even the pyroemotions video above used some cakes. Check 1PYRO8's youtube channel and you'll see lots of great setup vid's, including 1 of this show.They are just not used exclusively - there is other articles being shot at the same time. Plus, they get to use cakes we regularly don't get access to, such as slice cakes. Cakes can be risky (in above mentioned show about the only error in it was the cakes being fired, and one was backwards.) At Globalfest, which is smaller than Montreal , but still good shows, cakes make up 10-15 % of each show. Personally I would trust and use cakes over roman candles any time in a pyromusical. I have never seen them keep the same timing ever, even if they all start in time. Now when it comes to firing a show I prefer the traditional, as I'm old school and still prefer hand firing. Nothing like the thud of a 5" mortar launching(or back in the day, a 6" ! ) 5-10 feet away from you  |
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