gadet
New Pyro Member
Love fireworks, just started using a firing system and want to learn all I can.
Posts: 5 
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Post by gadet on Sept 30, 2017 6:06:13 GMT -5
Hello Hello fellow “Thump Junkies” Might as well jump right in and ask my first few “Newbie” questions to the “Gods of BOOM”. I want to make a slice of about 12 silver comets similar to the third or fourth shot of the “Variety Show” cake that shoot as close to the same time as possible. 1) What type of fusewould I need to do this and can I get it in Canada without a shooters license? If I can’t then the other option I was thinking wasto take the two 5 shot sections and put them in the slice andignite them fomthe middle using the existing fusing. I would like to fuse it from scratch as I want to do this with a fewother tubes that are not fused to go off at the same time. See why I joined, newbie playing with fire, lol Right now I use plywood strips and “Tucttape” the red sealing tape not “Duct tape” to secure my cakes. I find it sticks much better and youcan secure the talons well to the cake without putting pressure on the fuse connection. I usually tape around all the cakesfirst to make them one unit and then tape from the sides around the bottom of the plywood to secure the whole line of cakes. 2) Any concerns with this or a better way perhaps? My shows are only for my two social events (I am retired) with a small crowd of 50 – 70 people. The shoot site is at the opposite side of a large pond about 70 feet across and I have caution tape to keep everyone back another 75 feet from that. So from the front cakes to the crowd is about 150 feet and the back cakes are a little over 200 feet from the crowd. The prevailing wind is always away from the crowd or to the left. I angle any cakes with secondary shots like (howl at the moon, Joker, etc) about 10 degrees back away from the crowd to reduce the fallout area for these. Jpg of site attached, hopefully… once I set up a photo share account 3) Any concerns or suggestions on the site layout? Attachments:
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Post by Aussie on Sept 30, 2017 10:39:06 GMT -5
Are you ripping apart a cake and refusing it?
Unless you have a manufacturing license to do it and an authorization for the modified product, I would not be going down that road
Step 1 get you display assistant license
Step 2 call Fred Wade of Fireworks FX, he works in your area and might be looking for help for shows. Great guy, very knowledgeable
Step 3 look listen and learn.
It'll take a while and you'll learn what product can do what, use that knowledge to build your shows. That way you won't be breaking a dozen Federal explosive regulations
Do not rip product apart, choose products that create the flair you want
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Oct 2, 2017 8:18:28 GMT -5
Are you ripping apart a cake and refusing it? Unless you have a manufacturing license to do it and an authorization for the modified product, I would not be going down that road Step 1 get you display assistant license Step 2 call Fred Wade of Fireworks FX, he works in your area and might be looking for help for shows. Great guy, very knowledgeable Step 3 look listen and learn. It'll take a while and you'll learn what product can do what, use that knowledge to build your shows. That way you won't be breaking a dozen Federal explosive regulations Do not rip product apart, choose products that create the flair you want ^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said, think of the children! Jokes aside the above is true. |
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gadet
New Pyro Member
Love fireworks, just started using a firing system and want to learn all I can.
Posts: 5
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Post by gadet on Oct 2, 2017 12:32:41 GMT -5
Wow, I feel like I just came from the principals office back 40 years ago. And not even a comment on my other questions which were valid ones any 1.4 user would ask. I came here for help and guidance, I guess this is the wrong site for that.
I did learn one thing so far which didn't occur to me and it was from another thread which was by modifying the fusing of a consumer cake it technically becomes a display firework. So everyone who cuts down the side of a cake to attach a talon closer to the initial tubes lift charge is "Breaking federal explosive regulations"?
Sorry for calling myself a "Newbie" , maybe that evoked vision of an 18 year old playing with matches but I am a little farther advanced than I let on just to be nice since I am a new guy. I am a retired engineer and research everything to death before I do anything.
And yes, I will be getting my license just for the added knowledge but I am happy with what the 1.4 stuff can do for the two personal shows I put on each year on my own property. If you had looked at my show you might have concluded the choice of cakes, placement, and firing order would have been not a bad show for my SECOND show electronically fired. But maybe not.
Sorry for the rant but it wasn't what was said, it seemed a bit "High Horse" from a potential new member who might have contributed a lot over the years.
Not a great first experience. Take solace though, You have reinforced the inherent the risk of even the 1.4 category which I was already aware and I will play safe.
Thanks.....
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Post by bigtop on Oct 2, 2017 15:18:41 GMT -5
Hello Gadget You obviously put in the time to plan and setup your fireworks shows carefully. That is important for safety when firing the show. The planning can contribute to a good fireworks show but the most important part is the execution. Each firework has to be ignited at the right time and when using cakes there has to be a plan as to how to handle when a cake runs short or long on time. Sorry you were made to feel that you were being reprimanded but I am sure the other posters were just concerned about you getting into trouble by breaking explosives regulations. The issue with cutting up and reassembling cakes is not that you are creating a display firework but that you are manufacturing an unauthorized explosive. An unauthorized explosive is illegal to manufacture, import, transport, store, sell, posses or use. First you would need a manufacturing license or certificate to manufacture. A link to the explosives regulations is below laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2013-211/In answer to your other questions - 1 - I am vendor of display fireworks and I cannot sell you fuse unless you have at least certification as a Display Supervisor. 2 - It is important to make sure your cakes do not fall over when firing. I personally have not used "Tucttape" to do that so I cannot comment as to how well it works. the plywood can create a flat firm surface but not when it is on top of grass that very long. The recoil of firing can bounce the plywood so be aware of that. The only definite comment I can make is read and follow the manufacturers instructions on the firework. 2 - Your site seems reasonable to me but I cannot make a definite comment of approval due to the ridiculous safety distances on most consumer fireworks cakes. Both myself and other stakeholders made comments during the comment period for the Guidelines on the Authorization of Consumer and Display fireworks about required safety distances on consumer fireworks. My comments included that the public would never take them seriously because they are so excessive. If all the cakes are not being fired remotely I would use a simpler set of lines of fireworks so fireworks were lit in the order that the shooters walked through the setup. Overall it seems you are doing good planning and I hope that I have managed to give you a better understanding of the regulatory environment for fireworks in Canada. I think you have the potential to do well as a Display Fireworks Supervisor. |
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Post by Aussie on Oct 2, 2017 15:21:27 GMT -5
Please understand I’m trying to keep you off the radar and wasn’t trying to deter you from enjoying this industry like we all have a passion for.
Nobody wants comment because they don’t want to be attached to a comment approving of altering a cake on a website that I’m sure the ERD is well aware of, and I’m sure trolls on a weekly basis.
There is a big difference between working down the ignition fuse and cutting a slice out of a cake and sandwiching it between 2 other 5 shot parts as you stated,
I’ve spent 25 years in the industry in Canada and Australia, we’ve all been down this road of curious questions. Your free to ask however if you don’t get responses it’s because it’s either illegal or potentially dangerous. Cutting cakes to use pieces in another duct taped design
Is the reason why it’s so regulated up here in Canada. Cutting those perchlorate based transfer fuses react easily to manipulation, hence the manufacturing license, and even at that a risky endevour.
Altering a product does yes, upgrade it to display product, hence the license, when you get your license you’ll have access to 5 times more variety and design.
Sometimes a trip to the “principals office” is required when someone asks a question like that. We’ve all worked our collective ass if to work safe and be safe, when something goes wrong, like a chopped up fireworks that gets used near a crowd functions incorrectly and lawsuits begin, we ALL get squeezed by the regulator.
My comments are my own, others may have a different opinion, and they are welcome to it.
I get that I may have come across a little stern, As a Display Operator, and a very small fish in a very small pond, when you see the volume of paperwork we have to do to get a show off the ground, and the yearly insurance rates we have to pay, you would understand, getting your license will help you understand that
I’ll even teach you at one of my courses, I just want you and your audience to be safe
If you want to build and create, there is a group in the states called PGI, it will blow your mind what you can get up to in the manufacturing tent. Hour long courses to teach the basics, shell building, rocket building etc etc etc.
Please stay and learn from people on this forum that have even way more experience than me, there are a lot of enthusiastic people on here, lots of interesting design formats for shows, someone with a safety question
I suggested Fred, because his teachings will be invaluable, he knows more about pyro than most of us, international display company, and in your area, couldn’t ask for a better start in the industry.
25 years on, there is always something new to learn....and what NOT to do.
Stick around, someone may have an idea for your 12 silver comets, just in a different product.
My idea would be 12 x 20mm Display comets using a fast cue shot firing system like a Cobra System, then on another cue shoot your next cake in a timed sequence that works for your show design and budget
David
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gadet
New Pyro Member
Love fireworks, just started using a firing system and want to learn all I can.
Posts: 5
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Post by gadet on Oct 3, 2017 5:39:06 GMT -5
Ahh, "Light Bulb".
Thanks Aussie and BigTop for explaining how regulated we are in Canada and the potential ramifications it has on both myself and for anyone who condones actions that are a violation of the act on the site. It all makes sense now. And sorry for the prissy response from me, I just spent a bit of time on other boards in the states before I found ours here in Canada so you could imagine how different they are.
When I researched the acquisition of a license it became clear to me that getting the license didn't mean I could just go out and by mortar shells and that was it. All of the approvals and regulatory paperwork is just too much for my little show where I just would like to have a half dozes 2" mortars for the finaly. I guess that's what started me in the direction of "Tweaking" what was available to me in the 1.4 class. You can learn a lot on utube which is probably why I thought it was the norm up here.
I do have a suggestion for any of you that have the ear of the regulators or contribute feedback to them. There are warnings on all the products in Canada about distance from crowd, bury them, etc which is good. There probably should be a warning not to alter/modify/open/ etc and that is a federal offence right on them. Maybe this would educate other would be "Back yard pyro pros" to that fact.
There is a lot that can go wrong with some of the larger 1.4 cakes that you can clearly see on utube under "Fireworks Fails". Other than the obvious morons holding them, you can clearly see cakes bouncing out of control and shooting toward people and buildings, cakes exploding from cross fires, plugs failing resulting in breaks a few feet above the ground, etc. I might put a short video snippet together of the different types of typical failures as a educational piece.
Ok, enough rambling, Thanks again Gods of concussion.
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