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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 9, 2016 19:34:57 GMT -5
Regarding safety sheets - I would say that 90% of main companies use them - of course the general stores and Canadian tire etc don't tend to have them . On most of the fireworks websites there are safety instructions . But reading and understanding is a whole different matter . ( I heard of one guy who thought you could actually hold any of Hands fireworks ie cakes , mortars , barrages etc in your Hands because it is named Hands . Another guy thought it would be a good idea to taste test the composition of an airbomb. - Yeah - you can't fix stupid ) <<<<<<<<<<<<Yes you can but there are laws about ventilating the stupid ones with lead!
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 9, 2016 19:32:00 GMT -5
I've heard of issues when failure occur that sometimes the sparks and burning material can get caught between your face and the visor, same would be good without the burn trap Good ol safety glasses work better Thanks and agreed! I did make a comment about this on another forum to which a fellow pointed the same issue out but without re typing everything yes your right and again I am trying to get a feel for what the guys and gals want not what I want or everyone would be wearing kevlar Thanks for input Aussie
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 8, 2016 8:01:05 GMT -5
Not sure who is going laugh at this. The same guy who had the issue with the small cake, also picked up some fireworks from Costco online and when they were delivered, they were left outside by his front door. I would assume the box would have to be marked, no?
So in summery a 'Mandatory' or non-mandatory safety course for consumer fireworks would not work, due to. -No overall interest -It would bring up a underground market -Kill the general retail store from selling them -The safety info is supposedly available, provided one take the initiative to read \ seek it out so no need for a course -More Government over reach, no one needs
anything missing?
Yup pretty much sums it up and no the box is not to be marked on the outside. Think about that one, so if I was shipping IDK expensive collectible coins worth big bucks I don;t want to announce what is in the box so it does not get stolen by: The guy at the parcel counter where I drop it off, the sorters in the back the delivery drivers, the security at facility, there management staff, any other tom dick or harry who might see the box with a shopping list printed on each one etc. So yeah bad idea. They have a vague manifest and that is how it should stay to keep others from having a shopping list. Also if your surprised about fireworks being ordered and left at the door you should ask someone who orders a firearm restricted or non and has it dumped off at there door and left there till someone opens the door or shows up and takes it one way or the other. So if you think that is bad with fireworks..... Just say'in
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 6, 2016 20:12:01 GMT -5
And to think that is not all of the reported injuries and then there is the other set - the ones not reported. That is why many stats mean well not much, they are some what of a useful tool in guessing at a trend but not very accurate at the best of times. It is interesting to read just the same. If you were to include India and China (only) and compare fireworks injuries the numbers would sky rocket (no pun intended) There is also one huge difference in the USA, China and India Vs Canada (Enter drum roll) They don't have ERD regulating them. In India a regular person can buy a 5" shell and they do, place a mortar on the ground infront of there house (Who cares about overhead anything) droips the shell into mortar like a basketball lights it and boom off it goes one way or the other... What could go wrong there??? USA allows many different types of fireworks for family stuff for example the 1 3/4 " or even 2" family re-loadable shell packs... here we call those Pro fireworks there it;s just go buy and shoot them no course no safety no nothing. Same goes for firecrackers and a multitude of other fireworks for family stuff. As for pro fireworks - they have an entire cook book of how to make stuff and you can there legally - here not so much. Pretty hard to compare injuries between countries and the fact the USA alone is 10 times larger in population so you must account for that also in the facts which would stand to reason 10 times the injuries at the very min. Never had so much fun with facts....
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 6, 2016 17:19:45 GMT -5
good find, pyrotechsupply Ok will obviously, what should be happening, isn't Is there a real solution? Is this even that much of a problem, period? Generally, how are firework accidents even looked upon? Is it the person takes the grunt if it, or the situation that was let to happen? Thanks Huggyd! Real solution is you could report them to ERD and let them take there lumps or (not be a di*k) and tell there owner or manager (Not store staff) that they are failing to comply with federal law and regulation and point them in the right direction. Truth be told I was in Giant Tiger and they had fireworks not in box sets, just loose fireworks laying all over a shelf. Within reach of kids / public etc. I asked for the manager and informed him of the regulation so he does not get into hot water but he could care less and No one had a clue what the law was. He thanked me and said he would try to fix this issue right away (no I don't believe him). Soooooooooooo sometimes telling people helps and sometimes not. If I wanted to I could report them but I have been in store since and they no longer sell fireworks or have none out on store shelves for the little kiddies to light in the store anymore........ Fireworks accidents are reported to ERD and they will investigate but again if not reported by "ANYONE" (Key word anyone) then it never happened. ERD places charges etc on whom is responsible etc after the fact. Also in cases the Fire Dept also might have a part in this as well as local law enforcement depending on the situation and the damages incurred.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 6, 2016 13:26:51 GMT -5
I agree. To be a purist, a true pyro musical is done by single shots emphasizing the song at hand. Trying to tell that to a client (with the small budget they have) is really hard to get it across. And is not profitable at all. The best is when they say “well… ABC company says they can do it!”^^^^^^^^^^^^ That is exactly the problem (bold) But abs company had music playing so it must be a pyro musical, or I seen theses guys shooting fireworks and there was music.. I want the same..... Ummm yeahhh not the same as a Pyromusical. Easy way and best way is to educate the client / org / customer is to explain exactly what the difference is and then add so if you would like a true Pyro Musical starting price is 30K and see what they say I bet 99% will opt for the playing music and shooting fireworks. And for the next question I can smell coming where I keep pulling the 30K from - think of the amount of time it will take to script and proper show, man hours, then the equipment required to do this kind of show, the amount of trucks to haul all of this there and the size of crew you will need to prep for this. Does not pay to do anything under 30K because the base system for such a set up will cost 8K and that is just a very basic firing system no software (Finale fireworks or such) So unless you like paying for the customers show or providing free everything you pretty much are doing fire fireworks and play music. Lot's of companies who like to B.S. the customer and call it a pyro musical or the customer seen t on T.V. and assumes that is what it is.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 6, 2016 9:03:31 GMT -5
Musical doesn't always have to be to the break of a shell. Most would be fronts based on comets/mines. My show isn't a pro show. It's not in a competition. It completely 1.3. It's not world class by any means. But it's a backyard enthusiast show with Cdn Consimer. And it's no where close $30K. But I love creating and shooting it. vimeo.com/167671350You are not understanding what I am saying. Every part of that show from Pyro Emotions has a specific place, from being a break from a shell, to comets and mines single shots. When I fart around on Finale program every firework Shell/comet/mine is placed with the ups and downs of the music. Also in my opinion, Consumer cakes and 1.3 cakes do not belong in a Pyro Musical because you cannot count on the exact timing, they are all different, Trust me, I had pro cakes that were supposed to be 30 seconds only going for 10!. Have you ever noticed any cakes in those huge Pyro Musical shows? I have not come across any because they can be unpredictable, hence the reason of everything being a single shot. Placing cakes to music is just that, having music play in the back round of a fireworks show. Placing every firework in a scripted pyro musical is indeed a Pyro Musical.But again, this is my opinion and everyone thinks differently, I respect that. <<< And that there is the problem people don't know the difference. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said! A Pyromusical is having shells go off at exact times of music highs and lows and base etc at very specific timings. Cakes as mentioned cannot be trusted to be exact timing because like 5 second hand grenades they sometimes go off at 2 seconds and sometimes at 6 seconds, kind of like some cakes. All I can say is if I was a customer and expecting a real pyro musical like say the show in Boston to the 1812 overture I expect when the cannons go off for a salut to fire at the exact mili second and that is a pyro musical and that is what people expect for there money. Otherwise it is playing music and shooting a show. Timing down to the last mili second is what counts.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 5, 2016 17:49:17 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. That is interesting, I have not bought fireworks that many times but I have never been offered safety instructions when I did. Then the retailer has not done there due diligence and can be in big poop by ERD if they don't follow the rules. Here is Mysticals web site, check the bottom of page there is a Safety button to click on on there page: link
Many other outfits have a safety page on there main page and so I don't advertise for no one I will let you web surf that info.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 5, 2016 16:18:34 GMT -5
Here is some video from no one less then our wonderful fed's on a safety video: link
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 5, 2016 16:03:14 GMT -5
I stand corrected I found the elusive information here: link(Please see the bottom bold part.) and this is what it reads (keep in mind this is Federal regulation): Selling Consumer FireworksNo more than 1,000 kilograms (kg) of consumer fireworks may be stored in a sales establishment at any one time. If the sales establishment is located in a building that contains a dwelling, no more than 100 kg may be stored at any one time. The retailer must ensure that: all places where consumer fireworks are stored are at least 100 metres (m) from all above-ground storage tanks for flammable substances in bulk and at least 8 m from the following: fuel dispensers at a fuel dispensing station; retail propane-dispensing tanks and cylinders; above-ground storage tanks for flammable substances; dispensing facilities for compressed natural gas. If the sales establishment is temporary, the retailer must also ensure that: all places where consumer fireworks are stored are at least 8 m from all combustible materials, sources of ignition, thoroughfares, buildings or other temporary sales establishments and at least 3 m from any vehicle parking area; the sales establishment is a tent, the tent is made from flame-retardant material. When consumer fireworks are displayed for sale, the following requirements must be met: non-aerial fireworks in consumer packs or in packaging or containers that comply with the safety standards*must be separated into lots of 100 kg or less; aerial fireworks in packaging or containers that comply with the safety standards* must be separated into lots of 100 kg or less; all other fireworks, whether aerial or non-aerial, must be separated into lots of 25 kg or less; each lot must be separated from the other lots by a fire break; the fireworks must be kept away from flammable substances and sources of ignition; the fireworks must not be exposed to heat or dampness that might cause them to deteriorate; the fireworks must be separated from the ceiling and from any fire prevention system by at least 0.6 m; only people authorized by the retailer may have access to the area behind a sales counter; smoking must be prohibited within 8 m of the fireworks; the fireworks must be attended when the sales establishment is unlocked. Consumer fireworks cannot be sold to anyone who is less than 18 years of age and may be handled by a buyer only after they have been sold, unless they are in consumer packs or in packaging or containers that comply with specific safety standards*. However, aerial fireworks such as roman candles or cakes may only be directly accessible by the public prior to the sale if they are in packaging or containers that comply with specific safety standards*. If aerial fireworks are not packaged appropriately, they must be kept behind the sales counter or locked up (for example, in a cabinet) until point of sale. The seller must offer the buyer either a copy of the table that describes safety instructions for using consumer fireworks, which is found at the end of Part 16 in the Explosives Regulations, 2013, or a document that includes the same information.*Safety standards for means of containment under the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act, 1992.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 5, 2016 16:00:14 GMT -5
You all know there is a requirement by law that all the consumer stuff must come with safety information right? Can you clarify this? Are you referring to the warning on the product, or is there actually supposed to be some additional information provided when you buy consumer fireworks? First and foremost here is the "Safety" part for 1.4G (Consumer fireworks from ERD) link
Thant is for a few who don't realize it is already out there people just need to read it and adhere to it.. A whole different topic. To Answer Khogan - There is a requirement set that the Retailer must provide a safety sheet or post something to the consumer as a warning, and now when I am trying to find it on the that terrible web site know as ERD I can't find the information. I did see and read it but to the extent and wording I can;t remember 100% let me see if I can rummage around and find that.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 5, 2016 15:53:08 GMT -5
Musical doesn't always have to be to the break of a shell. Most would be fronts based on comets/mines. My show isn't a pro show. It's not in a competition. It completely 1.3. It's not world class by any means. But it's a backyard enthusiast show with Cdn Consimer. And it's no where close $30K. But I love creating and shooting it. vimeo.com/167671350 Bold = It does to be an actual Pyro Musical otherwise it is playing music and shooting fireworks not the same. Nothing wrong with playing music and shooting a show but to call it a pyro musical is like calling a truck a race car just because it has a V8.. not the same.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 5, 2016 10:52:28 GMT -5
You all know there is a requirement by law that all the consumer stuff must come with safety information right?
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 5, 2016 8:53:28 GMT -5
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 5, 2016 8:48:12 GMT -5
@ Huggyd - I never said don;t do anything I said there is nothing that can be done!
As the old saying says you can lead a horse to water but you can;t make him drink!
Or in our terms: you can lead a Pyro bug to pyro but you can't make him think!
If you really want to do something, protest the government the way folks do for pipelines and bring back firecrackers and allow anything in the USA here and then we will see accidents and deaths with pyro skyrocket.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 4, 2016 18:37:18 GMT -5
I am more of a traditional guy. I want to hear the firework, the power of the break and nothing to be drowning out the show like music. Don't get me wrong I enjoy pyromusicals as well but to pick between them it's going to be traditional. Ahhhhhhhhhh Spoken like a true Thump Junkie (Did I mention I am guilty of this same issue) It's funny you mention pyromusicals, I had an interesting chat with a local Pyro Tech who was boasting about there pyromusical and I had to point out that playing music in the background and firing fireworks is playing music and firing fireworks not the same as a pyromusical... someone did not like his bluff being called. Unfortunately the above happens more often then not and unfortunately the public get's taken by the same or has no idea of the difference. Pyromusicals under 30 K are a waste of time and budget but that is my opinion only, you can have one hell of a show for less and the public would enjoy it just as much.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 4, 2016 18:20:46 GMT -5
Well My first show as Lead was a SUCCESS no issues Excellent! So tell us more, approx size of show $$$$ Range of shell sizes? Etc etc, Enquiring Pyro Techs want to know
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 4, 2016 11:06:38 GMT -5
Yeah I get your point, and I do totally agree with "As a society we are bombarded and overcrowded by government regulations and control of our lives." as well as the other points. Really I would hate to see more people make the news and fireworks get a total ban or even go as far as BC did with only the Halloween being allowed, all because there being to many people wanting that Darwin award. History has also shown the few Fu*k it up for the many. When I get a chance I'll read that link. www.surrey.ca/city-government/21375.aspxI agree with you, I am on your side as far as wanting to help keep people safe and to use fireworks in a safe manner. As for your quote on history your also right but that is where we the professionals and consumers need to tell the government f -off with your over crowding of regulations as has been done before, still is happening and will happen in future. If you think for one minute that our government (Past/present or future) gives a rats arse about fairness you might want to ask any firearms owner in the past 30 or so years how they change rules at a whim because some specialty group that is federally funded and a minority can change things to screw it up for the majority. So I apologize but there is no middle ground with government on rules and regulations it is what they want how they want and when they want - don't believe me try doing the opposite in plain site and see what happens. At the end of the day there is no rules that will stop stupid from happening or from a stupid person from doing stupid things with any item in out society for example: firearms are used for hunting, target shooting and collecting but it does not stop you from using it in an illegal fashion, license or no license -0 government regulation and safety courses out the rear end and still there is no physical barrier stopping you nor can there be it is humanly impossible. Same applies for knives, axes, chain saws (now here is one everyone forgets) your personal or commercial vehicle (ask the folks in France about this one) There is no stopping ignorance or illegal actions with improper use or abuse of any item in society - there are only laws and regulations that serve as guides as to what we should and should not do, that is it that is all. So you still think we should add a few more to the books that wont stop anything? or the fact there is not enough folks to enforce the ones we have already?
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Dec 2, 2016 20:06:44 GMT -5
As mentioned above, make courses for what was legal to buy use and so on and regulate it and voila a black market arises, look in history oh at just about anything Prohibition, or the firearms new regulations that did not exist before some dummy decided to change things "for safety and security" blah blah
It would hurt the market in huge ways or turn regular folks into criminals overnight (because no one would want to follow that crap), which is what all the regulations or government past/present and future is doing to us now.
There are rules about using knives to hurt people or kill them and well ... that does not seem to stop anyone. There are warning labels on just about everything and there at least 100 examples of people doing the exact opposite.
I say take the warning labels off and let the Darwin awards begin, if you need to be told, labeled and shown and you still manage to F up with arrows and labels on products then you should not operate a pencil.
As a society we are bombarded and overcrowded by government regulations and control of our lives.
As for safety well many of the major retailers like Mystical and others have safety pages telling folks don't point roman candles at anyone, don't hold in hand etc and guess what every teenager does??? Yes I know you have to be 18+ to buy fireworks... yes and no under 18 year old ever got drunk, high or fired or was in possession of a firearm.....
My 10 cents
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 30, 2016 14:45:57 GMT -5
Agreed ^^^^^^^^^ Only problem in this case was this was not a hand light show. The ones that are hand light usually because the budget does not allow for all the E-matches in it. All about the $$$$$ In an ideal world all shows would be 20K + and the crew would always be the same and have all the time in the world to set up, the fire chief lets you sign your own auth form, it would all be fired from some electronic means far away.... and I get to win the lottery on Friday! (Like how I slid that in there?? LOL) Having read the forum on this unfortunate accident, I'm having a difficult time believing this was not operator error. I have been a Fireworks supervisor since 1990, fired and produced well over 1000 displays and squibbed (ematched) probably close to 250,000 shells if not more...I have cut match and squibbed shells long before quick connects came on the market, long before shrouds covered the match and Chinese shells were not authorized for sale in Canada. My first observation was they must have been testing and a shell went up...(it happens) then I hear that it's a faulty igniter...hmmm...I'm not here to criticize, but it would have been dark by 5:45-6pm, why was she only installing her 4th shell at 430pm...seems odd. That time of the year, I know I would be set-up and performing my checks. The most unfortunate part is you can become a fireworks supervisor after assisting on 3 displays...I've not come across anyone yet that I would send out on there own after assisting on 3 shows, but it happens... Just my 2cents, without getting into a whole barrage (no pun) of things, I wish her a full and speedy recovery. I'm a firm believer in getting to the site early, get it set up and double and triple check the installation... PB 110% in agreement with what you just said! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 29, 2016 8:29:40 GMT -5
Hence why I question the need to hand light any show. Agreed ^^^^^^^^^ Only problem in this case was this was not a hand light show. The ones that are hand light usually because the budget does not allow for all the E-matches in it. All about the $$$$$ In an ideal world all shows would be 20K + and the crew would always be the same and have all the time in the world to set up, the fire chief lets you sign your own auth form, it would all be fired from some electronic means far away.... and I get to win the lottery on Friday! (Like how I slid that in there?? LOL)
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 28, 2016 9:46:16 GMT -5
she might not have had her head over the tube enough to put a hole in it. It's possibly she just got grazed and that caused some fracturing. Plus the blast of the lift charge is pretty powerful in itself, you can definitely get some injuries from that, even if the shell itself doesn't make direct impact with you. Hope she recovers ok. As I always tell people I'm working with - ASSUME IT WILL IGNITE EVERY TIME YOU TOUCH IT. Well said! A loaded gun is a loaded gun 9mm or 310 mm the business end is the business end and as long as there is anything in it, it should be treated like holding your hunting rifle pointed PERIOD! the end! But still we all wish this poor Pyro Tech a speedy recovery and hope all will be well.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 27, 2016 14:16:20 GMT -5
At no point did I say her head was over the end of the mortar. IF her head was over the mortar, she would be dead, especially with it being a 5" aerial shell. ok, so she got hit with what then? Did it flower pot in tube? Because if so she should have all sorts of leg injuries and or missing parts waist down. The only way she could sustain these kinds of injuries would be hovering the tube or in front of it and slightly to the side when it fired and glanced off her face, Again this is only speculation so until the squares comes back with a formal answer that is what it sounds like to me.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 24, 2016 13:50:42 GMT -5
My apologies. The technician and woman is the same thing. Ohh crapo, that changes everything. But it still does not explain what she was doing with her head over the business end of the mortar. What a mess, I hope she recovers as fast as possible.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 23, 2016 16:35:35 GMT -5
I highly recommend the Montreal shows. And I would also say pony up the funds and get an assigned seat. Seating designed for fireworks! What more can you ask for? A world class event. Each show is about 25 minutes. Sounds like it, wish to be there coming year to watch or participate............ I am not picky
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 23, 2016 16:31:58 GMT -5
The current update is that the woman is improving, but she has a long way to go. She suffered severe damage to her eye, and will never see from it again. She has had two surgeries to her face, with two more planned for her sinus cavity. She also suffered a broken wrist. As for the accident, more information is now available. I am going to tell you the reported facts, not the other information that in not official. The issue was during the ematching of a 5" aerial shell. The technician took off the protective cap and installed the ematch into the white ematch holder found on the shell. She took of the cap because the ematch would not fit into the ematch holder on the shell. The technician was ematching the shell in the mortar, and it ignited when she installed the ematch into the holder. This was the 4th shell she was ematching that day. As reported by Aussie, the ERD has confiscated the 349 remaining ematches. But these were legal ematches, manufactured in China, and imported legally by a smaller supplier in Canada. So basically it is not user error, its an unfortunate situation that can happen to any of us. Play safe boys and girls. More details to follow. Bold =Mistake # 1 So correct me if I am wrong but if the shell was in mortar and it was being ematched in mortar how did she sustain the injuries she did unless she was hovering the business end of the mortar?? And if so then the tech doing the work is liable for the injuries this women sustained...... Are you sure this is fact? If so what poorly trained tech allows a passer by or assistant to stand in front of the business end of a mortar while loading? They should read the safety / loading of fireworks section. If this is all fact I hope this tech enjoys his retirement, I would not allow such recklessness at any show I was the Supervisor on. I sure hope there is missing information and I have this wrong.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 23, 2016 16:03:02 GMT -5
Lol...pyrotechsupply, on the CANADIAN FIREARMS NETWORK site there is video of my dad firing some light loads from the Napoleon muzzleloading canon. My dads health is poor, but he used to do fast draw, mountain man, and various war reenactments...so I want to take our show to another level using pyro and my other canon. Noooooooooooooo I don't want to watch your dad's video I want to light that sucker up!!!!! On a side note, not sure what the legalities are with a BP cannon at a Pyro show might be but I would double check into that before I would use that, salute load or not.
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 21, 2016 16:51:19 GMT -5
I have functioning full scale 3lb Napoleon canon, muskets, pistols, etc and a Cobra firing system. I am looking to apply some pyro effects for artillery impact simulations and smoke. My indoor pyro permit just expired but I want to take the outdoor course...any ideas where to attend? I run the Canadian Firearms Network fb site and am near Barrie, On. No idea but I want to watch the 3 lb'er go off No, no wait I want to light that sucker up!
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 18, 2016 8:23:55 GMT -5
You forgot to put an angry stick man where the fire chief will stand.... LOL
Jokes aside, nice work
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Post by pyrotechsupply on Nov 16, 2016 20:26:47 GMT -5
Congratulations! Now to make boom
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